EXCLUSIVE | MEL DOYLE and SAMANTHA ARMYTAGE to join DAVID KOCH in studio for his final episode of SUNRISE

Kochie’s farewell is set to be filled with surprises, as he reveals why he felt betrayed by an old Sunrise ally.

Tomorrow Channel 7’s Sunrise will bid farewell to David Koch after almost 21 years at the helm of the breakfast TV show.

It’s no understatement to say the show changed breakfast TV in Australia and he leaves a lasting legacy.

TV Blackbox can exclusively reveal former co-hosts Melissa Doyle and Samantha Armytage will join Kochie in studio for the farewell celebrations.

Kochie revealed the news while being interviewed in the McKnight Tonight podcast.

He also spoke about the betrayal he felt when original Executive Producer Adam Boland defected to Channel 10 and started a rival breakfast show.

Boland was instrumental in the success of Sunrise and set the playbook for others to follow.

There are many gems in this interview which was conducted Thursday morning.

You can listen in the player below or subscribe to the TV Blackbox & McKnight Tonight podcast in your favourite podcast provider.

A transcript is also available below.

Rob McKnight:

Well, his contribution to breakfast TV in Australia, it simply
can’t be underestimated. He literally changed the face of breakfast TV. He changed the dynamic and he’s
here right now. David Koch, welcome.

David Koch:
G’day, Rob. Thanks for having me.

Rob McKnight:
Kochie, it’s been a long journey. You call yourself the accidental host. You’ve been there for almost 21
years. We know the story. Chris Reason was sitting in with Mel. It was called the interim Sunrise at the
moment because they had a bigger Sunrise planned. You got to sit in the chair and it just worked, didn’t
it?

David Koch:
It did, and a whole bunch of people helped make it work. I look after a footy club and we often say in
football, “Games are defined by moments throughout the game.” And shows like ours are defined by
moments. The fact that here was a network that was desperate to have someone fill in, that nobody
watched. We were 5% of The Today Show’s audience at that stage, not even Chanel Seven executives
watched us. And they had this finance nerd that was easily available to fill in, didn’t really want to do it.
And then, because no one watched us, we were allowed to… We were disruptors. We decided to disrupt
breakfast TV, and it’s grown from there.
And I think there was no scrutiny on us, there was no pressure on us, no one cared about us. And we
were able to try things and fail, and no one knew. And try things and succeeded, and still no one knew.
And we continued to evolve the program to a juggernaut that it is today, that is the… Sunrise brand is
way bigger than any one individual that works on it, and it just seamlessly moves on, but still has all
those core values, those core beliefs that started the success of it.

Rob McKnight:
You say there was no scrutiny, but you had a small team. It was yourself, it was Mel, it was Adam
Boland, of course, you had people like Steve [inaudible 00:02:23].
David Koch:
Yoko Shimizu

Rob McKnight:
Of course.

David Koch:
… who now runs Bloomberg TV out of London. And our production office was a demountable in the car
park at Epping. So David Leckie used to lovingly call us the Mansons because we were this little cult
within Seven that didn’t give a toss about the rest of the network, and just went on our merry way. And
to give Leckie his great credit, he always said that one of his finest achievements at Seven was never to
interfere with Sunrise.

Rob McKnight:
Yeah, but before he came you didn’t have the support.

David Koch:
No.

Rob McKnight:
And the point I was making about the scrutiny was they didn’t pay any attention until you broke the
perceived rules. Even something so simple, Bolo was very insistent on you guys being called Mel and
Kochie, the branding of being informal. And the executives arced up about that made the voiceover go
back to David Koch and Melissa Doyle. But you guys would always tell the guests, “Call us Mel and
Kochie.”

David Koch:
Yeah, exactly right. We had a few things right from the start. We wanted to be more FM radio than news
and current affairs television. And we wanted to have that connection with viewers. And that simple
change to Mel and Kochie was a massive one because it just sets up the flavor of the show going
forward. And the other big thing, because I started before Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and iPhones, so
we’d only just come out of fax machines to email. And we used to say to viewers, “If you’ve got a topic
or an issue you want us to cover, email in.” And we had a whiteboard on the set

Rob McKnight:
The Roswell.

David Koch:
… called the Roswell, responses of Sunrisers. Although, Ros Kelly, we named it after her because of the
whiteboard sports rorts thing. She still has a go at me even today for that. But we would put that issue
or question up on the whiteboard, it would stay there on the set until we got an expert to answer it or
solve it. And that was our most powerful marketing tool because it said, this isn’t a bunch of TV tossers
that arrogantly think, “We will give you what we think you need.” This is a bunch of people that are
saying, “This is your show. You tell us what you want us to know.” And they’re not just paying lip service,
they’re putting you on a white book for all to say. If it doesn’t get rubbed off, it means they’re ignoring
us. And that was a massive, massive part of building us and building that connection with viewers.
And the other one was we tried to imagine a viewer and we wanted to have an icon that we could all
relate to, every producer could relate to. That every show had to relate to this icon. And it was Irene
from Home and Away. Middle-aged women

Rob McKnight:
Sometimes referred to as Irene from Ipswich.

David Koch:
Yeah, exactly right. And because mums in families control the zapper of the morning, so we want them
to turn us on, but we don’t want their decision to cause an argument within the family. So that’s why we
had the music for the kids. Dads really don’t matter in families. We all know that. I’m a dad, we’re low
on the totem pole, but we have a bit of sport for them and things like that.

Rob McKnight:
And some jokes.

David Koch:
Yeah, and some jokes. And the philosophy that we are lucky to get somebody for 20 minutes watching
because every house is a mad house at breakfast. And in that 20 minutes, you want to know the news of
the day, something to talk about at work or school around the water cooler, and you want to smile. And
it was a very, very simple philosophy. And I think it was so simple that’s the reason for the success. It just
connected.

Rob McKnight:
When the show started getting successful, were you surprised at how Channel Nine panicked?

David Koch:
I was. When I look back, it was relatively quick. When you’re doing it day by day so it seemed… The first
time I thought we were doing something was about four or five months into it. And Channel Seven in
Cairns had invited Lib and I up to host their Jazz in the Park Community Festival. And we were walking
along the esplanade at Cairns there, with the restaurants, past Barnacle Bill’s there, around that area.
We were walking along, and all the tables started clapping. And we thought, “Wow, who’s that? Who’s
around?” We started looking around, and the tables started going, “Kochie. Kochie.” And Lib and I were
absolutely stunned, stunned mullets with this. And that was the first time I thought, “Maybe what we’re
doing is right.” And it all started in Far North Queensland, there the ratings started to move first. Then
Brisbane, Southeast Queensland, then Perth, Adelaide, Sydney, and Melbourne. So it all started in
Queensland because I think they got our sense of humor and that connection.

Rob McKnight:
Well, there’s a great television truism that if you get Brisbane, the rest will follow because it seems to be
the first market that really changes the dial.

David Koch:
Yep. I reckon you’re right. And a lot of companies do that around the world. They launch things in
Brisbane and Southeast Queensland as almost the test market to see whether it will go elsewhere. And
it was certainly the case for us.

Rob McKnight:
Do you remember when we were working at Beaconsfield together? Huge story.

David Koch:
Yep.

Rob McKnight:
Huge story. A lot of things happened. That’s when I think you saw the negative side of your fame
because when you got invited into the back of the ambulance, and you copped media criticism over
that. But that’s not the part I want to talk to you about. There was a moment. We were on air, Richard
Carleton had just died during a media conference. You and I were standing next to each other, right at
the back, near the OB truck we were working out of. And all of a sudden photo [inaudible 00:08:58]. It
was the most bizarre thing because there was a man dying and this lady wanted a photo, and you
begrudgingly had to take it. And I asked you about it afterwards. I said, “That was really weird.” And do
you remember what you said to me, why you took the photo?

David Koch:
No, you got me.

Rob McKnight:
No?

David Koch:
No

Rob McKnight:
I’ll tell you. Because it sat with me forever, Kochie, you said, “The problem here, Rob, is that if I say no,
she’s going to think I’m an asshole. She’s not paying any attention to what’s going on around here. So I
did it as quick as I can. I didn’t smile. Because she would go and tell her friends, “That Kochie’s an
asshole.”

David Koch:
Yep. And look, I got that from my dad. I’m lucky my father was my hero growing up. And I know I’m
really lucky to have a role model so close as a dad, many people don’t. He related to anyone. He ended
up running from nothing to a massive big listed company, stock exchange listed company, that had
thousands of staff and they all loved him because he could relate to people working down the coal
mines or behind the bar at the pub. And he always told us, “You treat every single person with respect
no matter what they do.”
And if someone stops for a photo or to chat, and everyone is always so nice, you always do it because it
means a lot to them. And I’ve been reminded of that in the last two weeks. The number of emails and
letters I’ve got from people saying, “You were so kind when I wanted a photo and I was a bit distressed
because I’d just lost a relative. And you asked about it, and you had a real conversation.” Now I simply
do not remember those moments, but it means so much to people. And we all do it on Sunrise. And I
think the whole team has a very similar value set, that everybody’s important and you treat everyone
with respect.

Rob McKnight:
Yeah, I think it’s a good lesson. Obviously, with the success, more pressure and headlines came about
Sunrise. You essentially got Kevin Rudd into becoming the PM.

David Koch:
Now you’re sounding like John Howard.

Rob McKnight:
I know that you deny that.

David Koch:
John Howard even today says, “You created Kevin Rudd.” And I’ve been going, “Mate, we had him as a
guest on the show. And we had Joe Hockey there, one of your mob as well, so we were fair.”

Rob McKnight:
Absolutely. But because you were having so much influence and you talked about the trust in Sunrise, it
was, I think you were voted Australia’s most trusted brand, if I recall correctly.

David Koch:
Yeah.

Rob McKnight:
And then came the infamous, “Sun Lies,” front page on I think the Sunday Telegraph.

David Koch:
Yeah.

Rob McKnight:
It was something that sat with you, wasn’t it, I mean to the point where you framed it and put it up in
your room, in your office to remind you they can turn.

David Koch:
Yeah. And never get too big for your boots. It was a campaign that News Limited had turned on Kevin
then, and we were collateral damage if you like. But I got the most incredible wife and family. And
because this sort of TV stuff, if you like, came to me in my mid to late 40s, I don’t look like a TV person, I
don’t sound like a TV person. It was basically [inaudible 00:12:46] right time, right place. But we’d built
our friendships with people, parents at our kids’ primary school way before I started to do Sunrise. And
we’ve always kept that group of friends. I have a big family. We tend not to socialize in media circles at
all. Not because we don’t like people in the media, but we’ve got other priorities.

Rob McKnight:
It’s not real.

David Koch:
We’ve got friends who are high priority and family. And I think that’s been really good for me. And the
fact Lib doesn’t care about ratings, nothing. She just cares about me. But it keeps you really grounded.
But that headline was, there’s the warning if you get too carried away and you never take it for granted.

Rob McKnight:
Yeah. Loyalty’s always been a big thing for you, Kochie, and the people who work on the show, the
viewers. And your loyalty back, when you announce Shervo as your replacement, I have never seen a
presenter be warmer than you were to him, and bringing him along to the Sunrise family. Presenters
don’t do that. I know you’re looking like, “Why wouldn’t you do that?” You’re giving me this face of,
“This isn’t a big deal,” but people do. People don’t do it what you did. You have a loyalty. So considering
what you had been through with Adam Boland and starting the show up, was it a little disappointing to
you when he went to Channel 10 to launch a new breakfast show?

David Koch:
Oh, of course it was. Absolutely. And he knows that, and we’ve talked about it. And he wrote that book,
and all that sort of stuff. I got a lovely note from Adam the other day of congratulations, but was really
warm and lovely and empathetic. But yeah, him going and setting up the Channel 10 breakfast show I
thought was a bit of a betrayal, stupidly because in media people change and do things all the time, but

Rob McKnight:
Yeah, but Sunrise was the Manson family. It was a cult.

David Koch:
Yeah, it was a cult. Like Lisa when she went to Today Show. Because there was talks and rumors that she
was going to go from Weekend Sunrise to Today Show. And then we had a staff conference, workshops.
First one Sunrise had ever done. And I remember saying to Michael Pell at the time, “Well, there’s all
this talk of Lisa going to Today Show, she can’t come to the workshop.” And Michael went, “No, no, she’s
not going. I trust her.” All that sort of stuff. Came to the workshop and then next week said, “She’s going
to Today Show.” So we had planned out the whole year in this workshop. Anyhow, it didn’t make much
difference. But at the time…
Because I’m passionate about it.

Rob McKnight:
I know.

David Koch:
And I keep saying to people, “I leave with an enormous sense of pride in what we’ve achieved.” I have
loved this program. I helped build it. I want it to be successful. You are saying I was so warm and
generous when Shervo was announced the other day. I desperately want him to succeed.

Rob McKnight:
I know you do.

David Koch:
Because his success means the show is successful, and that’s a reflection on me and it’s a reflection on
the whole team. It’s like in business, if I put my finance nerd hat on, the greatest test of a chief executive
is the quality of their successor. And I’ve always thought that’s been a really big thing. And Shervo, he’s
been part of the family. Wouldn’t have been any surprise to you that Shervo was the one that got the
job because that’s what we do.

Rob McKnight:
It was a transition. It was well planned out.

David Koch:
And we’d known that. Yeah. We’d known that for ages. We’ve done it with everyone else who changes
as well. We always bring people up from within because our viewers are used to them, they’ve built a
connection. And that’s why breakfast TV is so different to any other TV time slot, the connection is so
powerful because you’re in people’s lives for so long every morning, getting to know you for good or
bad.

Rob McKnight:
It is interesting you’re talking about the team. And I had the absolute honor of line producing Sunrise for
a while. I found the hours very hard. One o’clock wake up, I never got used to it. But I loved putting the
show to air. And what I loved being able to do was put things in your ear, give you ideas. And sometimes
you’d bat them away, sometimes you’d try them. Sometimes they’d work, sometimes they wouldn’t. But
you did accept ideas from everywhere. You had your own ideas, of course. But it is that team thing that
if sometimes you get told something in your ear, you think, “I’ll give that a go.” And it is how you’ve got
to build a trust, isn’t it, with the people behind the scenes?

David Koch:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And because the worst fear, when you are live on air and you’re going to stuff
up. You stuff up talking to your family or your work colleagues all the time, it’s no different for us. It’s
just that a whole bunch of people see you stuff up. You can’t slink away. So we’re only human. The worst
feeling you can ever get live on air is when you feel like you’re being hung out to dry, that there’s no
support, there’s no backup, you don’t know where you’re going, you don’t know what’s coming in.
Particularly when you come in and you start the show and then something happens overseas, and so for
the next five hours commercial free, you are just talking the pictures of whatever comes in and it’s all
being fed through your ear.
We have the most magnificent team supporting us that I have, I can honestly say, never felt that horrible
feeling of being hung out to dry. Dave Walters, who Dougie has been in our ear, well, for all the time I’ve
been there. He worked for me in my family business when I was doing radio and TV for Sky and 2GB and
3AW. Son of a dairy farmer, so he was used to getting up early. So [inaudible 00:19:34].

Rob McKnight:
He loves those hours.

David Koch:
Oh, I know. But you know there’s that consistency and the directors, and now we have Sean and Sarah
in areas, who second guess. And that’s why your co-host is so important because you almost build a
relationship, that you instinctively know when someone’s running out of steam and when to jump in and
take over. And it’s a bit of magic when that happens and can happen for hour ins, hour outs when
there’s developing news. So that’s the biggest buzz. The biggest buzz is a show that’s completely
planned and then gets thrown out of the window when something’s breaking overseas. And it’s usually
on a morning where you may have not been able to sleep or been out a bit later than you should, been
out till 8:30 and you’re thinking, “Oh, I’m just going to cruise today and read the Autocue.” And then all
of a sudden you go to five hours of breaking news and you go… Murphy’s Law. It always happens. But
it’s such a buzz because that’s the team at its finest.

Rob McKnight:
The big finale is tomorrow.

David Koch:
Yep.

Rob McKnight:
It’s going to be a big one, presumably full of a lot of nostalgia. But we do know some special guests will
be on set, don’t we?

David Koch:
Yep, we do. I’m calling us the Sunrise OGs. If the Wiggles can have OGs, Sunrise can have OGs. Mel and
Sam will both been coming in. They’re such an integral part of the show and its development and in my
career and my time there, we couldn’t have done tomorrow without them both… I saw Sam last night at
a function, and I was getting her advice on how she adjusted moving away because I’m not
underestimating that it’s got to be a massive adjustment. And how do you cope with that? And Mel, I
saw weirdly enough, the week before last, at Australian Fashion Week. Not because I go to Fashion
Week, but I mentor one of the designers and help her with her business. So as a sign of support, I went.
It’s the first fashion show I’ve ever been to. It was quite interesting. But had a long chat to Mel there. So
both of them, I’m really delighted, will be part of tomorrow’s show. That’s the only thing I know about
the show tomorrow.

Rob McKnight:
Yeah. I probably know a few more things than you, Kochie.

David Koch:
No doubt you do. Sarah and Libby have been scheming for a week. Lib will disappear of an afternoon,
evening into the bedroom on her phone. I’ll go, “Where have you been?” “Don’t you mind. You’ll be fine.
You’ll find out.” So it’ll be great.

Rob McKnight:
And it is good because there are headlines that Sam didn’t put an Instagram post out congratulating you
soon enough. What do you make of all that?

David Koch:
That’s stupid. I must admit I’ve been overwhelmed. I had no idea the interest this would create.

Rob McKnight:
Oh, Kochie.

David Koch:
That was a ridiculous headline out because Sam did post, amongst everything, a really nice note. That
was probably the stupidest headline. And the other one was, “Meet Kochie’s Hot Son Who Secretly Runs
his Family Business.” Well, he’s got three sisters and the family WhatsApp was giving him shit all of that
day going, “Well, they didn’t mention your receding airline or the eczema that you can sometimes get in
winter.” And so I mentioned that on air. And then the next minute there’s another story saying, “Sisters
Tease Kochie’s Hot Son.” And I go, “Oh, my God.”

Rob McKnight:
Well, I tell you, the reason you are on every news website at the moment, they are looking for different
angles because you may not have realized it, but you have had an impact on the Australian culture. You
have. And there have been comedians that have taken the piss out of you when they were… Remember
when there were sketch shows?

David Koch:
Yes.

Rob McKnight:
And they used to do the Mel and Kochie. You’ve had an impact. And that’s a great legacy to have.

David Koch:
Yeah. Look, I’m really proud of what I’ve done on Sunrise. As I said, huge sense of pride and no regrets.
It’s been a buzz. I’ve loved every single minute of it. But the time’s right.

Rob McKnight:
David Koch, congratulations and thank you so much.

David Koch:
Good on you, Rob. Thanks for having me.