In a special edition of the TV Blackbox podcast this week, Rob McKnight sits down with the Seven Networks Head of Programming Angus Ross, to unpack all the details of the network’s biggest Upfront presentation in years.
There is a lot to talk about including a brand new broadcast channel 7Bravo, a new output deal with NBCU, and a stack of new show coming to the network in 2023.
Plus in a big twist – find out why Angus is considering returning Big Brother to its original format!
You can listen to the full interview in the provided audio player or via your prefered podcast app. And we have provided a full transcript of the interview below:
The TV Blackbox Podcast will return to its normal panel format next week.
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Rob McKnight: Judging by everything I’ve seen, the big takeout for me seems to be a brand new free to air channel.
Angus Ross: Yeah, we’ve got a new partnership with NBC that’s delivering us a new multi-channel, Seven Bravo.
That’ll be, we think powerful both on broadcast but particularly interesting for Seven Plus as well. We think it’ll be quite a driver for that. Very pleased.
I’ve complained to James Warburton for a couple of years now about being one multichannel short versus our main competitor.
Finally thank you to James. He’s delivered something to even us up.
I mean, as you would know, we have the most powerful suite of multi-channels and this is just going to make it that much more powerful Again.
this new channel is one that really we’re kind of viewing it if you like, as the female equivalent of Mate, a real power with women under 50. Y
eah, very excited by Seven Bravo and our bigger overall deal with NBC. Great to be in partnership with them.
Well, another channel I think is just great. That’s my big takeaway. What do you feel is the big headline coming out of the Upfronts?
Look, along with Bravo, I think it’s our continued investment in a lot of local content and with particularly I think in Q1 we’re coming out big with Australian Idol, throwing a big proven format up against Married At First Sight.
We’re very, very excited by Q1.
That’s going to be the big first salvo to watch really as we see Australian Idol go up against Married At First Sight. Marcia Hines is back. When was that decision made?
Marcia’s always been part of the show. It’s funny, a couple of people have asked me that and I’ve always said there was a lot of talk about our judging panel when it was released.
But I always like to say, “Look, don’t judge things based on one part of one show, on one network.”
There was always more to reveal on this show, but yeah, we’re very happy with how things are sitting both with the judging panel and with the contestants on that show.
And we’re delighted with Marcia as well.
Have you seen any of the first cuts of the auditions?
I’ve seen just some raw auditions. I mean, which is really encouraging because this show’s really about those diamonds in the rough and watching people, that often overused word, a journey as people transform in the stars.
But the best thing about this show is bringing back live television and with this show, as you’re very familiar with, you get to see more performances from these artists across the series.
We’re really excited about bringing back live and finding some real undiscovered talent with this show. But yeah, it’s a big swing for Q1, but I think there’s still a lot of positive nostalgia about this show.
I’m shocked Australian Idol hasn’t been brought back earlier, to be honest. It’s such a big brand, a heritage brand in this country.
I mean, we tried to bring it back a couple of years ago, but COVID kind of crucified those plans and it was always one where we felt we have to come back with the live element of the show.
I mean, it’s interesting in the US when Fox canceled the show and ABC then picked it up a couple of years later, it’s now ABC’s most demographically rich show on the network. It’s their number one show in 18 to 49s.
Just finally out pointed Grey’s Anatomy on their network. I mean, look, we’re very, very positive about it.
We think it’s a good counter-programming alternative in that Q1 versus MAFS and versus Survivor.
Well, it’s interesting you’re doing something very different to Married At First Sight. A dating show, although that’s dating show on steroids and doesn’t fit into the traditional Bachelor type of dating show. My take at the moment is that dating shows are off the boil. I’m intrigued by what you’re doing with Big Brother Singles. What’s the thinking with that?
Look, I think Big Brother is a show that’s always skewed pretty young and the thinking behind it-
You’re saying I’m too old for it, Angus?
No, I view you as young. I think what we’re doing with this cast is really leaning further into that young skew. I’ve seen the cast and they’re fantastic.
I think we’re going to get a lot of great content out of them. Very, very charismatic people. Certainly not just a bunch of shallow airheads or anything like that.
That’s good.
Really, really pleased with the cast. But the show is still Big Brother. I don’t think you are automatically thinking it’s a … I wouldn’t move it fully into the dating category.
I’m a little concerned, I will be honest, when I saw the singles, the application for singles. Look-
The one thing I will say on Big Brother, I’ll be really interested to see how the as live version goes in the UK-
That was my next question
… next year. We couldn’t, due to the schedules that we had to produce this next series, consider that. But I’ll be watching with interest because it’s certainly something we would consider going forward.
Okay, so this is an interesting point and I did want to ask about that and I probably spent too much time asking about Big Brother to be honest. But let’s just say-
I like it. You’re passionate.
Let’s just say this season doesn’t do great numbers or does on par with what it’s been doing and Big Brother goes off in the UK back to the original format, you would consider going and trying the live 24-hour turnaround?
Yeah, I mean, that would obviously have to be for calendar year ’24, but-
Of course.
… absolutely we’d do it. I’ll be watching with interest.
I don’t know if I’m hoping for success or your next series mate, to be honest.
Well, the House of Love will be coming in the back half of calendar year ’23. I mean, obviously we’ve got a bit of flexibility with it because it will be on the shelf and ready to go, but be a back half play for us.
And let’s be honest though, no matter how long, because I think shooting starts at the end of this month, no matter how long they’ve got it, even if they’ve got a year to edit it, they’ll still be doing it up until the last minute before it goes to air. We know.
Yes, you’re right. You’re correct.
One of the big-
I just look at the delivery schedule. Yes, you’re correct.
One of the big ones that you have poached of course, is the TV Week Logie Awards. What was the thinking about behind Seven getting onto that one?
Look, I think it was just opportunistic. When we saw the ratings for it, we inquired, it was a free ball. We started chatting and took it.
I mean, you have to say it’s a pretty good night of ratings. Pretty good night of entertainment.
I mean, you’ve be vocal in saying that there’s many, many things that can be changed for the night of nights and I think-
Me vocal? I’m shocked. I’m shocked, Angus.
I think we’re in agreeance, I think we are viewing it as an opportunity for a freshen up and a real celebration of Australian television.
Maybe some new categories as well to embrace the way that people are now watching things. But no, no, we’re really excited by it.
It was available and we were surprised when it was available, so we stepped in.
Yeah, well, good on you. I think a lot of people at Nine are sad to see it go. I’m interested to see what you guys do with it. Do you know which state it will be in at the moment?
Not at this point. I think that’s ongoing.
Yes, you do. You’re not going to tell me. That’s what I’ll take from that.
Where would you like it to be, Rob?
Do you know what? I actually don’t mind because I think Melbourne, traditional home, has always had a good place there. The industry is housed in Sydney, so it makes a lot of sense for it to be there, and the Gold Coast has provided a great venue.
I thought the Logies last year on the red carpet at least had a fantastic vibe because everyone was glad to be back. I actually don’t think it matters where it is. I’m just intrigued, Angus.
Yeah, well, all will be revealed soon.
All right. I look forward to you giving the exclusive to TV Blackbox. All right, true crime has always seemed to be doing well. You’re bringing the Claremont murders to us.
Yeah, this is something that’s been on the boil for about I think four years or so, even before the case was solved.
I first spoke to Rory Callahan about doing a miniseries on this because it was out of … I guess it was probably one of those last untold stories of true crime in Australia that a drama hadn’t been built around.
Yeah, it’s been a while in development. It’s finished shooting. I just watched episode one last week. I’m seeing episode two this week. It’s really fantastic. It’s very sensitively dealt with, but it was Australia’s, I think longest running unsolved serial killer case.
And I always find it fascinating, the police work involved in trapping these people and hunting them down and as they narrow the focus, it’s a rip roaring ride and obviously a very tragic story.
Is that a documentary series or is that a scripted drama?
Scripted drama, yeah. From Screentime.
Yeah. Fantastic.
That’ll come next year.
Yep. And Million Dollar Island, how is production going on that? There was a bit of a delay for a couple of issues.
Yeah, there’ve been some pre-production issues on that one. It has been slightly delayed. It’s still delivering when we require it for next year.
I’m excited about this concept. This is-
So am I.
… a huge concept. I love it. There’s $1 million up for grabs?
Correct.
Everyone has a $10,000 band, don’t they?
Yes.
How do they get those bands? Can you rip it off them? Or is it a series of challenges?
Murder people.
No, there are various challenges, various ways to win these bands and when you lose your band, you are off the island.
here are some challenges where one person might be eliminated. There are some challenges where a whole lot of people might be eliminated.
But no, we’re really excited about it. Eureka have done a lot of work on the format to adapt it for this market because we are rolling the format out quite differently to how the show was done in the Netherlands.
But we’re really happy with the place that it’s in and then, yeah, we’re excited to get going on it.
You bring back comedy with We Interrupt This Broadcast. We haven’t seen comedy for a long time on Australian television, really.
No. Yeah, We Interrupt This Broadcast, it’s being made by Helium, Mark Fennessy, and yeah, it’s just trying to look at some different things to run at 7:30 rather than the total reliance on strip reality.
I know you’re there, man after my own heart. There you go. We’re trying a couple of different things like that.
It’s also the old rule, put on what’s not on. And comedy’s always going to be subjective, but we think with 30 to 40 sketches per show, you’re onto the next thing before you know it.
You’re going to find something to give you a laugh. But again, that’ll be coming in Q1.
We think it’s interesting, again, counter-programming against MAFS, against Survivor/Doghouse, whatever 10 are going to be running and just trying something a bit different.
It’s the same thinking behind the 1% Club, which is the UK comedy quiz format that Jim Jefferies is hosting for us.
Just trying different things to try and break up the reliance on strip.
Which I think is fabulous genuinely, because it’s getting to that point where we really rode the wave of reality TV at 7:30.
It doesn’t seem to be doing the job anymore unless it’s something that really connects with viewers. I commend you for trying things differently.
I have advocated that 10 should move their 8:30 programming to 7:30 to give themselves a chance. Have You Been Paying Attention and Gogglebox could be star performers at 7:30.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, I know you’ve discussed it extensively on your shows. I mean, if I had the money, I’d love to be doing a lot more 9:00 PM programming, trying different things.
But it’s a balance across all of our content, from the entertainment content to news to sport.
I’d always ask for more money, but obviously we’re a business, we have to operate within certain parameters and we do the best with what we’ve got.
Of course. And obviously though, if it does change where reality is, and if you’re not having to do as much reality because you’re doing different things at 7:30, how far would you like original programming to go into the night each night?
Would you like to get to 9:30? Would you like to get to 10:30? Would you like to have a stable place for the latest? What’s your feeling about that?
Look, I think probably that … Well, that traditional post reality slot, whether it’s 8:30 or 9:00, I don’t think it’s probably sustainable to be doing local stuff beyond that.
Unless you were looking at a chat show of some sort, say at 10:00 or something like that.
Do you think there’s a market for that in this country anymore of that? Or have those days gone?
I don’t know. You’d need a pretty big personality, I think to be able to hold that. And a lot of those people tend to work across different mediums and things as well.
I’m just making things up now, but if it was-
Of course.
… someone from radio or that sort of thing, probably a lot of people … You get paid so much money on radio, they don’t want to do television. But-
That’s becoming the hard thing, isn’t it?
Yeah.
Because the finances are different compared to radio and television because radio is-
Very different.
… talent driven where all the money is up front in the personalities. Whereas television, it takes a lot more people to get ideas to fruition.
Absolutely right. And at the moment in the Australian market, the inflationary pressures on productions are pretty extreme across all aspects of producing.
We’ve got to kind of try and manage that as well. But yeah, your buck is certainly not going further at present.
I just want to touch on Animals Abroad with Dr. Harry., Dr. Harry’s back. We all love Dr. Harry.
I love Dr. Harry.
This is a series about transporting animals around the country, around the world, is it?
Yeah. Yeah. It’s from Beyond. Look, I love animal shows. I think that’s on the record.
That is on the record, yes.
No, yeah, it’s a cute little show about kind of weird and wonderful animal transportation issues.
You don’t think particularly with now the world firing up again with COVID, but there’s so much transportation of animals between the UK and Australia and that sort of thing.
It just gives an insight into that world and the heartwarming reunions and that sort of thing. Yeah, just a different take on animals.
Yeah. Always good to have Dr. Harry back.
Yeah, yeah. It’s great.
Streaming, BVOD. Where are we up to with that? What’s happening on the Seven Plus? There’s a bit of, in what I’m seeing in the releases, there’s a bit going on there. You’re trying to carve out your own special place, but there are some big announcements you’re making to that.
Yeah, well we’ve touched on NBC. Along with the Bravo content, there’s also going to be a lot of the traditional NBC drama content now available on Seven Plus.
We’re getting access for broadcast also to the NBC Network series and also cable series and their movies and so forth as well.
It’s a big NBC package that we are really happy to be back in partnership with them and maintaining a content pipeline.
It’s interesting with the US stuff, I know you guys talk about it a fair bit, why are they running these shows at 9:00 or that sort of thing?
The overnights never paint the full picture of this sort of programming.
I agree.
They consolidate massively over the Seven days, both on DVRs, but particularly streaming, and on the streaming side on nearly all these shows, we’ve got all the previous seasons as well.
The key is it’s a driver to Seven Plus in instances these series. And obviously they’re cost effective from versus local production.
And that’s all part of the balance. But it’s absolutely key to have pipelines to these US series, both current and library along with your tent-pole programming.
That of course drives a lot of minutes onto onto BVOD, but maintaining cost effective programming pipelines to high end US drama series and so forth is really vital.
That’s what we’ve done with this deal.
7Plus, could it ultimately become a paid for streaming service? Is that the migration, or will it just remain free and do what it does as an extension of free to air TV?
Look, it will always remain a BVOD service, but I wouldn’t rule anything out with future partnerships and how that service may evolve.
I asked that question because obviously people look at what’s going on and we see 10 has Paramount Plus, Nine has Stan, and it literally just occurred to me the other day thinking about it that you don’t necessarily, from Seven’s point of view, need to start a whole new streaming service.
But of course there are rumors about Peacock and Seven if you want to reveal anything here on TV Blackbox, Angus?
No, no. I don’t think there’s anything to reveal. We are in partnership with NBC and we’re excited to see where that goes over the next few years.
But my point that I was getting to before that cheeky side tangent was that there is no reason why 7Plus can’t just develop into that space. You don’t need a new brand to do it.
What do you mean?
To become a paid for streamer.
I don’t think you could turn 7Plus into a paid for streamer without a massive US content pipeline Accompaning it.
Yeah. Gotcha. Understand. That makes perfect sense. Just before we wrap up, Angus, the Upfronts is mainly about advertisers.
Yes, the media love to get to see what’s going on and get an insight, but what is your message to the advertisers at these Upfronts? Why are they choosing Seven?
Look, Seven will be number one in 2022, and of course we’re aiming to be number one again in 2023. We’re always aiming for more consistency across our schedule, and we think we have a bunch along with our returning tent-poles, a bunch of really exciting new formats that are going to resonate with audiences.
Trust us, we’re going to grow and Of course there is Seven Bravo, Finally equal footing.
You seem very pleased about the Seven Bravo and I did start off with that, so we’ve come full circle, Angus.
Oh, well, look, the thing is with that Bravo content, it strengthens Channel Seven and it weakens the competitor, so it’s win/win.
Absolutely. All right. Well, congratulations on everything that’s coming. I’m really intrigued about what you’re doing at 7:30. I think there’s some really good ideas that’s happening there and you’re taking risks. We know sketch comedy is a risk, and so-
Look, our schedule, it’s always going to be a balance of proven and new formats.
It’s all about managing that risk. As we’ve seen, if you just start barreling into launching new formats on the assumption they’re going to work, you can end up in big trouble very, very quickly. It’s hard.
New formats are hard to launch, and if suddenly you’ve got new formats five nights a week and none of them are working, you’re in a world of pain.
Absolutely. Well, good luck tonight, although by the time everyone hears this, it will have happened. I hope it went well for you.
Hope you enjoy it.
Thank you very much. The TV Blackbox Podcast will return to normal next week. Angus, thanks for your time.
Thanks, Rob. Talk to you soon.
